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	<title>Comments on: Tinderbox In Litigation</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.maclitigator.com/2010/01/21/tinderbox-in-litigation/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.maclitigator.com/2010/01/21/tinderbox-in-litigation/</link>
	<description>Litigation &#38; trial technology for the rest of us.</description>
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		<title>By: Warwick</title>
		<link>http://www.maclitigator.com/2010/01/21/tinderbox-in-litigation/comment-page-1/#comment-8846</link>
		<dc:creator>Warwick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 01:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maclitigator.com/?p=343#comment-8846</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Pete.

I found your review very helpful.

As a non-software professional, I would nearly some fairly explicit guidance about &quot;regular expressions&quot; before I had a clue what was understood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Pete.</p>
<p>I found your review very helpful.</p>
<p>As a non-software professional, I would nearly some fairly explicit guidance about &#8220;regular expressions&#8221; before I had a clue what was understood.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Bernstein</title>
		<link>http://www.maclitigator.com/2010/01/21/tinderbox-in-litigation/comment-page-1/#comment-7820</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Bernstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maclitigator.com/?p=343#comment-7820</guid>
		<description>Mariusz: I think Mr. Stoneman was suggesting performing a search-and-replace on the Tinderbox XML file itself, rather than on exported files.  This *can* be a useful technique.

And in any case it&#039;s a nice illustration of the advantage of open XML files: you can modify the file using standard tools to accomplish things Tinderbox doesn&#039;t anticipate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mariusz: I think Mr. Stoneman was suggesting performing a search-and-replace on the Tinderbox XML file itself, rather than on exported files.  This *can* be a useful technique.</p>
<p>And in any case it&#8217;s a nice illustration of the advantage of open XML files: you can modify the file using standard tools to accomplish things Tinderbox doesn&#8217;t anticipate.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Bernstein</title>
		<link>http://www.maclitigator.com/2010/01/21/tinderbox-in-litigation/comment-page-1/#comment-7819</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Bernstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maclitigator.com/?p=343#comment-7819</guid>
		<description>I disagree that symbolic regular expressions are outdated, and I think most software professionals would agree with me.  They&#039;re widely used in just about every professional tool textual analysis tool, most modern programming languages, and in just about every full-featured text editor.  

There&#039;s simply no alternative that offers anywhere near the expressive power of regular expressions. And, of course, you can simply type a word or two when that&#039;s what you need -- and in my experience, two-term Boolean phrase matching will in fact cover 80-90% of most users&#039; needs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree that symbolic regular expressions are outdated, and I think most software professionals would agree with me.  They&#8217;re widely used in just about every professional tool textual analysis tool, most modern programming languages, and in just about every full-featured text editor.  </p>
<p>There&#8217;s simply no alternative that offers anywhere near the expressive power of regular expressions. And, of course, you can simply type a word or two when that&#8217;s what you need &#8212; and in my experience, two-term Boolean phrase matching will in fact cover 80-90% of most users&#8217; needs.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.maclitigator.com/2010/01/21/tinderbox-in-litigation/comment-page-1/#comment-7798</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 17:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maclitigator.com/?p=343#comment-7798</guid>
		<description>@Bernstein - &quot;Regular expression&quot; in Tinderbox means:

Washington&#124;Adams
A+*  (notes starting with A with at least one other letter)
A[a-e] Aardvards and Adams but not Affleck or Avogadro
When.*reasons  (When..(any text)..reasons)

This need for symbolic language is not evident from the search box.  Moreover, although &#039;technically&#039; a regular expression search, the use of symbolic language is a very outdated method, well beyond the comprehension of most modern computer users. A user shouldn&#039;t need to lookup a symbol when they need to do a search.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bernstein &#8211; &#8220;Regular expression&#8221; in Tinderbox means:</p>
<p>Washington|Adams<br />
A+*  (notes starting with A with at least one other letter)<br />
A[a-e] Aardvards and Adams but not Affleck or Avogadro<br />
When.*reasons  (When..(any text)..reasons)</p>
<p>This need for symbolic language is not evident from the search box.  Moreover, although &#8216;technically&#8217; a regular expression search, the use of symbolic language is a very outdated method, well beyond the comprehension of most modern computer users. A user shouldn&#8217;t need to lookup a symbol when they need to do a search.</p>
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		<title>By: Mariusz</title>
		<link>http://www.maclitigator.com/2010/01/21/tinderbox-in-litigation/comment-page-1/#comment-7797</link>
		<dc:creator>Mariusz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 16:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maclitigator.com/?p=343#comment-7797</guid>
		<description>As to aesthethics, I think Tinderbox was always ahead of Mac OS, be it the old OS 9 or today&#039;s Snow Leopard. You can really make it look almost whatever you wish.   

Mark Stoneman&#039;s advice to use BBEdit for finding  and replacing is - sorry to say - rather ridiculous if you consider that you want to replace a word or a character in the whole Tinderbox document. So you export a file with a hundred or more text conteiners to a word processor, then do search and replace and then what... manually copy and paste each piece of text back to its container in Tinderbox ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As to aesthethics, I think Tinderbox was always ahead of Mac OS, be it the old OS 9 or today&#8217;s Snow Leopard. You can really make it look almost whatever you wish.   </p>
<p>Mark Stoneman&#8217;s advice to use BBEdit for finding  and replacing is &#8211; sorry to say &#8211; rather ridiculous if you consider that you want to replace a word or a character in the whole Tinderbox document. So you export a file with a hundred or more text conteiners to a word processor, then do search and replace and then what&#8230; manually copy and paste each piece of text back to its container in Tinderbox ?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Bernstein</title>
		<link>http://www.maclitigator.com/2010/01/21/tinderbox-in-litigation/comment-page-1/#comment-7762</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Bernstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 23:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maclitigator.com/?p=343#comment-7762</guid>
		<description>By the way, Tinderbox&#039;s find dialog can search for any regular expression -- not just two word boolean queries.  

Also, your agent example is more complicated than necessary; you could just make an agent and search for &quot;Jay-Z&quot; and that&#039;d do the trick.  The extra clause, &quot;Prototype=album&quot;, is handy because it restricts the search to albums, but it&#039;s certainly not necessary. (Conversely, there are times when I wish it were easier to tell the iTunes store that I&#039;m looking for Leonard Bernstein&#039;s symphonic compositions, not his performances or his songs or his lectures or albums paying tribute to his legacy or podcasts or....)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, Tinderbox&#8217;s find dialog can search for any regular expression &#8212; not just two word boolean queries.  </p>
<p>Also, your agent example is more complicated than necessary; you could just make an agent and search for &#8220;Jay-Z&#8221; and that&#8217;d do the trick.  The extra clause, &#8220;Prototype=album&#8221;, is handy because it restricts the search to albums, but it&#8217;s certainly not necessary. (Conversely, there are times when I wish it were easier to tell the iTunes store that I&#8217;m looking for Leonard Bernstein&#8217;s symphonic compositions, not his performances or his songs or his lectures or albums paying tribute to his legacy or podcasts or&#8230;.)</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Stoneman</title>
		<link>http://www.maclitigator.com/2010/01/21/tinderbox-in-litigation/comment-page-1/#comment-7753</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Stoneman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 18:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maclitigator.com/?p=343#comment-7753</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t needed a global find and replace, but if I did, I might just open the document in BBEdit and take it from there. BUT I would have a back-up and be very careful about any boolean searches, because I would not want to inadvertently change any of the code. I haven&#039;t tried this yet, but I don&#039;t see why it wouldn&#039;t work. You might ask Mark Berstein, though. And if you don&#039;t have BBEdit, there&#039;s its free and able little brother, TextWrangler.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t needed a global find and replace, but if I did, I might just open the document in BBEdit and take it from there. BUT I would have a back-up and be very careful about any boolean searches, because I would not want to inadvertently change any of the code. I haven&#8217;t tried this yet, but I don&#8217;t see why it wouldn&#8217;t work. You might ask Mark Berstein, though. And if you don&#8217;t have BBEdit, there&#8217;s its free and able little brother, TextWrangler.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon Meyer</title>
		<link>http://www.maclitigator.com/2010/01/21/tinderbox-in-litigation/comment-page-1/#comment-7752</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Meyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 17:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maclitigator.com/?p=343#comment-7752</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll just echo what Mark said about data portability. I&#039;ve been using TInderbox since v1.0 and I&#039;ve never had a problem getting data out of it. In fact, one of the reasons I purchased it, and continue to use it regularly, is that there is no lock-in for the data. Everything is just an XML text file that&#039;s easy to use with other tools.

It&#039;s not written in Java, but I do agree that Tinderbox has its own aesthetic that doesn&#039;t quite look like a standard Mac OS X program. But it has been getting more visual polish over the last several releases and that&#039;s a good thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll just echo what Mark said about data portability. I&#8217;ve been using TInderbox since v1.0 and I&#8217;ve never had a problem getting data out of it. In fact, one of the reasons I purchased it, and continue to use it regularly, is that there is no lock-in for the data. Everything is just an XML text file that&#8217;s easy to use with other tools.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not written in Java, but I do agree that Tinderbox has its own aesthetic that doesn&#8217;t quite look like a standard Mac OS X program. But it has been getting more visual polish over the last several releases and that&#8217;s a good thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Bernstein</title>
		<link>http://www.maclitigator.com/2010/01/21/tinderbox-in-litigation/comment-page-1/#comment-7751</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Bernstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.maclitigator.com/?p=343#comment-7751</guid>
		<description>Sorry you were frustrated!  And doubly sorry about missing your email. Your review was sent to my personal mailbox on Tuesday night, I happened to be on the road in New York, and as it happened my reliable MacBook Air was on the blink. I first saw your email about 12 hours after the post; sorry!

I think you may have overlooked some useful filtering tools -- especially sorting containers and regular expression searches.


For finding albums by Jay-Z in Tinderbox, I&#039;d do one of two things:

a) Use the Find window to search for notes with Performer containing Jay-Z, OR

b) Sort my container of albums by Performer, and find Jay-Z.

iTunes has a nicer interface for routine searches, but Tinderbox can handle a wider range of queries: it&#039;s easy to look, for example, for all memos, depositions, and filings after last December that mentioned Forsyth or Bustard.  That&#039;s advantage of agents; once you&#039;ve formulated that question, you&#039;ve go the answer *now* and the agent remains to give you an updated answer *later* should you need it. 


With regard to small developers, it might give you some confidence that Eastgate&#039;s been writing hypertext tools like Tinderbox since 1982. Tinderbox files are standard XML: your data are yours, and you should have little difficulty moving data elsewhere if you wish.  Moreover, Tinderbox&#039;s export tools are extremely flexible: if you want to export from Tinderbox to nearly any modern format, you should find the task straightforward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry you were frustrated!  And doubly sorry about missing your email. Your review was sent to my personal mailbox on Tuesday night, I happened to be on the road in New York, and as it happened my reliable MacBook Air was on the blink. I first saw your email about 12 hours after the post; sorry!</p>
<p>I think you may have overlooked some useful filtering tools &#8212; especially sorting containers and regular expression searches.</p>
<p>For finding albums by Jay-Z in Tinderbox, I&#8217;d do one of two things:</p>
<p>a) Use the Find window to search for notes with Performer containing Jay-Z, OR</p>
<p>b) Sort my container of albums by Performer, and find Jay-Z.</p>
<p>iTunes has a nicer interface for routine searches, but Tinderbox can handle a wider range of queries: it&#8217;s easy to look, for example, for all memos, depositions, and filings after last December that mentioned Forsyth or Bustard.  That&#8217;s advantage of agents; once you&#8217;ve formulated that question, you&#8217;ve go the answer *now* and the agent remains to give you an updated answer *later* should you need it. </p>
<p>With regard to small developers, it might give you some confidence that Eastgate&#8217;s been writing hypertext tools like Tinderbox since 1982. Tinderbox files are standard XML: your data are yours, and you should have little difficulty moving data elsewhere if you wish.  Moreover, Tinderbox&#8217;s export tools are extremely flexible: if you want to export from Tinderbox to nearly any modern format, you should find the task straightforward.</p>
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